The Rise of a Woke Right?

Is the extreme right a conservative version of Marxism?

James Lindsay made experiment where he sent the American Reformer a search-and-replaced version of Marx’s “The Communist Manifesto,” replacing “the proletariat class” with “the New Christian Right,” and “bourgeoisie” with “classical liberalism,” and so on. The result got published (8:51).

The screenshotted passage in the video, “The weapons with which liberalism [bourgeoisie] felled tradition [feudalism] to the ground are now turned against liberalism [the bourgeoisie] itself!” was actually just some poetic rhetoric, which when boiled down is rather bland. It didn’t make a substantive policy equation between Marxism and the New Christian Right. It only suggests that, being self-inconsistent, classical liberalism [the bourgeoisie] could not sustain power.

So I wonder, how close is the comparison is between Marxism and the NCR? Are they similar at all? I doubt it. But I also doubt myself enough that perhaps I need to do a comparison of the ideas for myself. Without having researched deeply though, all this shows to me is that the editors considered classical liberalism to be the enemy.

Is classical liberalism an absolute good, needing improvement, or a failed concept?

The condemnation of classical liberalism is an interesting thing. Classical liberalism can be criticized for having been too tolerant. After all, it politely allowed the far left to undermine the ideas of objective truth, of equal protection under the law, of the sacrosanctity of an impartial judiciary, and of the need for a separation of powers. The result was a color war on biblical values, unmitigated reverse racism, the near defeat of 1A and 2A, a barely-disguised politicization of the court system, and the rise of an unelected Deep State that took over the government.

So classical liberals lacked the teeth to stand their ground.

What enabled this, IMHO, was the government’s favoring of a few (and therefore easily controlled) large corporations dominating national discourse. Fair and square competition, and at times antitrust principles, need to triumph over unrestricted capitalism. The alternative is simply another name for socialism - where property and resources under monopoly control are in reality controlled by the state.

socialism: a theory or system of social organization that advocates the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, capital, land, etc., by the community as a whole, usually through a centralized government.
SOCIALISM Definition & Meaning | Dictionary.com (emphasis mine)

Does the woke right even believe in 1A?

Lindsay asserts that the far right now clamors for a dismantling of constitutional ideals, similar to the woke left, but from the opposite side. At 33:30, he claims that the idea “This is a Christian nation, and the Christians of this nation demand that we have Christian leaders dominate this country” is becoming a common sentiment, and that this means going against the First Amendment.

I actually believe that wanting Christian leaders is not a per se violation of the First Amendment. What was such a violation?

  • The denial of equal funding for elective religious education. (Never forget John Adams: “Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.”)
  • The legal compulsion to surrender children to indoctrination and even surgical mutilation, in accordance with new fads of sexual identity, permissiveness, and wokeness.
  • To permit businesses and universities to espouse affirmative action. That is, to discriminate in hiring and admissions on the basis of immutable characteristics, and whether the applicant submitted to woke beliefs.

I believe that someone who is traditionally faithful, whether Protestant, Catholic, or Jewish, would have a healthier view than any Democrat, of protecting faith in general. Biblical faith in particular. The institutional discrimination we conservatives have been experiencing must end. The OBBBA’s school choice provision is a major step towards that.

That said, we must not forget how the Protestants persecuted the Catholics in England, and how the Mayflower pilgrims (being outside the English Christian establishment) were fleeing to America from religious persecution in the Old World. The Quakers, the Shakers, the Deists, Theists in general, the Catholics and yes, the Jews whom George Washington addressed, were all afraid of America becoming a nation with one national religion. In his words:

All possess alike liberty of conscience and immunities of citizenship… for, happily, the Government of the United States, which gives to bigotry no sanction, to persecution no assistance, requires only that they who live under its protection should demean themselves as good citizens in giving it on all occasions their effectual support.
~ George Washington, 1790, Letter to the Hebrew Congregation of Newport

“Alternative ways of knowing” in the woke right

Lindsay also suggests that the “woke right” is falling off the plateau of truth. Because “[they]'ve been lied to about a lot”, the woke right have begun to say that “what They don’t want us to know, whatever They don’t want us to talk about, is more likely to be true.” (51:02)

I’d say it’s a good thing in general that we have the Streisand Effect. But it can lead us astray. While it can point us in fruitful directions to investigate, and often such conspiracy “theories” prove to be more than mere theories; sometimes they are just crackpot ideas. The way to tell is by seeing if there is reliable corroborating evidence. We cannot relinquish our personal responsibility to make that evaluation for ourselves.

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Good post, well drafted, made more sense too after watching the video which I did.

What though, is the solution?

Or, backing up, what is the problem?

It can’t be that people defined as woke right are to be faulted for wanting national identity, Christian America/Jewish Israel as if we go back to the Tower of Babel we see God made it so, right?

The video does in part what it identifies, give a grain of truth that people might follow.

So the video calls out perceived wrongs but gives no cure and now you subscribe and follow to hear more, get to the solution you believe must be coming.

Back to Babel, why did God scatter the people?

nothing will be restrained from them

The video discusses mimetic socialism, how people will simply imitate one another

cc4e57e34f58530dde8e1871dca9f15d-2370703562

Why are they walking as they are in the photo above?

There is no particular reason why the circumambulation of the ‘Kaaba ’ is made seven times. For the same reason that Allah requires Muslims to pray five times a day is why Muslims make seven circuits around the Kaaba.

followed by:

In doing so, Muslims are simply obeying the commands of Allah.

And if it’s right for them and their nation to do so, even forbid foreigners:

Whats wrong with Christian leaders or Jewish leaders for US and Israel?

Back to what is the problem.

The US actually defies Babel (God) as it’s a melting pot, all are free here, Muslims too.

That freedom means freedom to recruit others to follow whomever, Allah included.

So aren’t these woke right merely defending their nation?

That’s the problem, it’s not their nation, it’s free, meaning too it’s up for grabs.

I could pick apart the video, tons of misleading tidbits, but, I can also applaud it.

But, still, no cure.

More of the problem is as I’m reminded here:

It’s coming on, it’s coming on
It’s coming on, it’s coming on

The future is coming, Islam want’s to dominate, Jews want to as well, effectively I might add

and Christians?

Well, they’re as factious as Jews and Islam so surely yes.

We still have no cure, but, we do have

lots of warnings.

So then, is there a cure?

I’d suggest not likely as a group or nation, but individually, with baptism by fire.

And as such, articles like this are good as they serve to inform people, to a degree, if you don’t understand 10/7 or 9/11,

or how Nick Fuentes (pictured briefly in the video to add affect) was once pro Israel, and is now a white “supremacist” and just “watch” the video, it really just adds to the

Can’t forget Ozzy so quick :wink:

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When human principles are not well-defined, there tends to be a tendency towards the extremes. When however there is a well-defined set of principles, as for example by a Constitution or (to make a difference) the Bible, the boundaries marking the beginnings of extremism are set, and people who understand the boundaries stay within them.

When one wishes to avoid the extremes, the basic principles must be reinforced through personal study.

Although political centrism is derided as being unmoored and unprincipled, I think that that criticism comes from people who have no moorings themselves, and who haven’t yet comprehended the idea of absolute moral boundaries. This is the bedrock implicitly understood by the authors of the Constitution, and commanded in Scripture.

I’m not necessarily saying that political centrism is an absolute value on its own. I view centrism as a side effect of having moral boundaries blocking off the extremes to the left and to the right. The proper view is not necessarily at the exact midpoint either.

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The beginning of that chapter says:

Genesis 11:1 Now the entire earth was of one language and uniform words [d’varim achadim].

D’varim achadim was translated here as “uniform words,” but it could also be translated as “unified concerns.” A later verse lends support to this interpretation:

Genesis 11:4 And they said, "Come, let us build ourselves a city and a tower with its top in the heavens, and let us make ourselves a name, lest we be scattered upon the face of the entire earth. [emphasis mine]

In other words, they were unified and co-located, and they were afraid of losing their unity.

Without resorting to commentaries (and at risk of adding my own) perhaps this is a condemnation of extreme political homogeneity? I mean, if there were one political party for the whole world, like there is in China, they could bulldoze their policy through without opposition or due consideration of its flaws. Then it would make sense to decry it:

Genesis 11:6 And the L.rd said, "Lo! [they are] one people, and they all have one language, and this is what they have commenced to do. Now, will it not be withheld from them, all that they have planned to do? [emphasis mine]

Without being forged through the heat of opposition and debate, how can we be confident that the cracks in our policy have been welded shut, or that it allows enough liberty for innocents to live undisturbed?

Rashi on v. 1 presents different ideas, which perhaps do not really conflict with mine:

Rashi to Genesis 11:1 uniform words. They came with one scheme and said, “He had no right to select for Himself the upper regions. Let us ascend to the sky and wage war with Him.” Another explanation: [they spoke] against the Sole One of the world. Another explanation of d’varim achadim (other editions read: d’varim chadim, “sharp words”): They said, “Once every 1,656 years, the sky totters, as it did in the time of the Flood. Come and let us make supports for it.” - [from Gen. Rabbah 28:6, Tan. Buber Noach 24]

Rashi to v.4 lest we be scattered. That He should not bring upon us any plague to scatter us from here. — [from Tan. Buber, Noach 28]

In other words, they wanted the power to resist G.d and not be smited for it. Is that so different from monoparties like the Chinese Communist Party?

Given all this, G.d’s remedy makes sense: Give pluralism, by differentiating their languages and their locations. People living in different climates and in areas with different natural resources will naturally have varying concerns. Then they will be forced to learn how to live among those with differing opinions, and give them enough liberty to do what they must to live.

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As often happens we now derail a bit, you ask a question but shut down the discourse.

The answer might be more readily available with the discourse, opposition and debate are not requirements.

What is required?

Might be more than you can, or rather are capable of handling, i.e. a differing perspective.

You take a humanistic approach, you individually, Jews as people, ingrained, taught, IDK.

But, I suggest if you could indulge in conceptualizing we’re the “human” race, but not the “only” race.

Lets go back further yet

We have three descriptions, giants, sons of God, daughters of men.

Can you imagine the first two are the same, but a differing race than man, and the daughters are the race of man, with the two coupled creating mixed a race, men of renown?

As well, can you consider again a race of gods

i.e. “one of us” a race of gods:

?

If you can imagine these two instances then you may understand the tower of babel had nothing to do with fear of

but rather God inhibiting mankind becoming as gods.

Then, understand over time there are those who have not given up uniting mankind to do just that, that the road has been long but the time is approaching where media, 60hz, social media and the lot have become enough to if even unknowingly get minds moving toward the same end.

The disbelief in your video, the not understanding the insanity, it’s not as puzzling when you can identify many people are in fact entranced, that mass media causes a mass hypnosis.

Consider muses as a race, messengers, easier historically

But, what about in this century?

It is the world that has been pulled over your eyes to blind you from the truth. Neo: What truth? Morpheus: That you are a slave, Neo. Like everyone else you were born into bondage . Into a prison that you cannot taste or see or touch. A prison for your mind."

rephrase considering torching free the welds that keep you from thinking in a more spiritual realm which might allow more personal liberty.

So,babel had more to do with

and that continues, lead by an individual commander,

Satan, this is his realm

which is why he temped Christ with it in exchange for worship.

Jesus was a willing sacrifice to redeem you from Satan, He had to be killed, a lamb without spot, on Passover, but only if you accept Him.

Careful with that philosophy route, kinda sounds like the Hegelian Dialectic. I was introduced to it in college at 46 years old, my first comment to the teacher was “So this is how you teach communism and don’t say the actual word”
I had always given Marx and Engels credit but Hegel is where they got the dumb ideas from. And Honestly, you hardly ever get an argument on a really good idea, forging two ideas into one isn’t required as Hegel claims.
We have to put limits on the debate part, If you are counting the reply you get from the woke as debate when you say there are just two sexes you are crediting them with a legitimate idea. You can’t forge good steel with a rubber hammer, why try. If a stupid idea wins the debate it is still stupid.

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Yeah, that’s true. Sometimes the idea is totally insane.

It’s like the story of the insane prince who thought he was a rooster. He took off his clothes, would crow at dawn, and demanded that he be served food on the floor instead of the table, where he pecked at it without using an fork and knife or spoon. The prince’s father the king hired all kinds of wise men to cure him, but they all failed.

Except one. This wise man observed the prince for a while, and then told the king of a plan. The wise man then took off his clothes and pecked on the floor like the prince. The prince said, “What are you doing?” The wise man replied, “I’m a rooster like you.” The prince accepted it.

The next day, the wise man left his clothes on but crouch-strutted about the floor with the prince. The prince said, “Roosters don’t wear clothes!” The wise man answered, “Just because a rooster wears clothes doesn’t mean he stops being a rooster.” The prince accepted that and put on clothes too.

The next week, they sat at the table, and the next they used a fork, knife and spoon. After all, what a rooster does has no bearing on what a rooster actually is. :stuck_out_tongue:

Likewise gender confusion. People can like and do all sorts of crazy things. But it doesn’t change what they essentially are.

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Why not when it actually becomes debate?

Exchanging ideas should not be a debate.

I proposed the idea you contemplate the fantastical, is that what you deem insane?

How can we as a race have all necessary code to replicate new life be contained in a sperm and egg and yet deny any theories on the existence of any other race?

Our best is AI and robotics void the biology of actual life, does that make us such experts we can deny what we don’t know?

The tradition of study via debate is much older than Hegel, nor does it necessarily imply Marxism. Among Jews, debate has been the traditional way to study for thousands of years, and can be observed today in yeshivot. Students will pair off and face each other across a table with books open, and they will argue about the text. The meanings of words get clarified through cited context and prooftexts, exceptions to rules get fleshed out through other rules, and so on.

The spirit of scholarly debate permeates the rabbinic tradition.

Pirkei Avot 4:4 Ben Zoma said: Who is wise? He who learns from every man, as it is said: “From all who taught me have I gained understanding” (Psalms 119:99)
Pirkei Avot 4:8 [Rabbi Ishmael] used to say: judge not alone, for none may judge alone save One.
Pirkei Avot 4:14 Rabbi Nehorai said: exile yourself to a place of Torah and do not say that it will come after you, for it is your fellow students who will make it permanent in your hand; and “lean not upon your own understanding” (Proverbs 3:5).
Bava Metzia 84a [italics interpolated] Rabbi Yochanan said to him: Are you like the son of Lakish? In my studies with the son of Lakish, when I would state a matter, he would raise twenty-four difficulties against me in an attempt to disprove my claim, and I would answer him with twenty-four answers, and the teachings would be broadened and clarified. And you say, “There is a teaching which supports you.” Do I not know that what I say is good? The arguments of Reish Lakish sharpened me; your approval does not.
He rose and left, tore his clothing in mourning, weeping and saying, “Where are you, son of Lakish? Where are you, son of Lakish?” He cried out until he went insane. The rabbis prayed for mercy upon him, and his soul lay still.

A similar statement-challenge-answer technique is used in modern law schools.

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Hence my word of caution, watch out for hijackers. The Hegel clubs always claims the debate is between two ideas, they only want people choosing between two proposals. When you see that it is not debate but manipulation. Don’t get me wrong, I love debate I just don’t care for what passes as debate these days, when you debate stupidity you can move the Overton window in their favor.

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Hence the boil down, antisemitic or antichrist, but is a follower of Christ anti, or pro?

The pull down to being antisemitic due to antisemitics being antichrist is just that, pulling you down and entrapping you into darkness.

I posted the etymology of debate in hopes people would learn what debate is, negative, it is not the healthy exchange of ideas, it is placed within other groups that again, are not pro Christ

Stupidity welcomes debate but will reject the exchange of idea’s, the former is energy from the negative, tapping into the dark side, power to destroy, hence “anti”, the latter is the light, it destroys debate, comes from a place of concern for the debator.

You don’t debate, you meet and expose, darkness will retreat

Truth is there is only two proposals, choosing or rejecting the dark side,

And if you listen very hard
The tune will come to you at last

Luke lost his right hand rejecting darkness

But he story does not end there

No,I am your father

The tune will come to you at last
When all are one and one is all, yeah