It seems FRT’s are all the rage. But I have yet to see any serious comparison of the varying brands. There appear to be several. Rare Breed was the first I think. I have seen one but have not shot one. Now there is Partizan and something called something like Ascus or some similar approximation. I have shot that last. It appeared to me to be faster than a real full-auto AR. It is peculiar because it is only replacing the safety lever/switch. The others require dropping in a whole trigger system, a la Timney.
What I would like to know is how do these various triggers compare. I suspect Belt-Fed would be most likely to have all three in question (and perhaps others also), but anyone with experience, please chime in with pro’s and con’s. I am interested in acquiring a couple but unsure which to consider buying.
I have friends that own machine guns. I get to play with them every once in a while.
I have shot the original Rare Breed triggers and also one of the new Super Safetys. The original Rare Breed there is no semi auto except your trigger finger. The Super Safety does let you select semi auto.
The rate of fire is about the same as a M16.
2-3 round bursts are not a problem with either setup.
That makes sense. I don’t think the trigger has much to do with the speed; it just waits until the action has cycled before letting off another round. Since the M16 and AR15 have basically the same action, BCG weight, and and range of motion for the BCG, the cyclic rate should be about the same. The trigger has no time delay ability to speak of.
I have the Rare Breed trigger. As @shooterrex said, it does not have a single shot mode. The Partisan trigger has the single shot as well as FRT mode. It is also a drop-in replacement trigger pack and is a little less expensive. I have not shot one of these.
I have fired a Super Safety. It performed about the same as my FRT. One thing to note. You will need at least an H2 buffer, but probably an H3.
Also, expect parts to wear out quicker, especially BCG. I had to replace my bolt carrier due to wear. My buddy has had a couple of bolts broken in half come into his shop.
I installed a War Hammer Amaments super safety in a friend’s AR, a Diamondback. This is a cross bolt style safety that has semiautomatic and FRT functions. It came with the trigger shoe which has a cut out on one side for the raised cam lobe on the safety itself. There are also videos on how to cut this relief in a trigger shoe if need be because not all super safety’s come with a repaired trigger shoe. Without this cutout the vertical extension will bind and break.
After installing and check for function, I loaded a mag and tested semi auto, that worked fine, then switched to FRT, the gun fired about 5 rounds then stopped working. I cleared the gun and opened it to check the vertical extension, all was fine and the gun still worked in semi auto and still worked in FRT while doing manual functions check.
After some research I installed a H3 buffer and the gun ran fine and never malfunctioned. I put 2 30 round mags through it and told the owner he would need a H3 buffer to make the gun work and slow the bolt down. He did buy one and installed himself but I don’t think he has shot the gun yet.
I can see problems especially in the more budget friendly guns if an FRT is used in them wearing out or breaking parts.
They are fun and do work, I feel faster than a binary style setup, which I have installed and used in an AR style and 10/22 setup.
Rare Breed went to a lot of expense and trouble to sue ATF and the government. With that in mind, I suspect I will probably purchase one of those, if for no other reason than to support a guy who not only invented the things but fought for them.
The newer FRTs by Rare Breed do have a semi auto and FRT settings. Rare Breed the company was started by an attorney lawsuits are in his DNA. The forced reset idea was reviewed by former ATF rule makers before they were brought to market. So Rare Breed was on pretty stable ground before the lawsuits started flying.
The supersafety uses standard parts for the most part. You basically just change out the safety not the entire fire control group.
My comments on RareBreed border my comments on the NRA so not good, as was stated there’s other FRTs out there than just RareBreed and if you want something like that I’d recommend the Partisan Trigger instead of RareBreed, though i’ve been making and selling Kabuto FRTs and AK Super Safeties lately. There’s a lot of different one’s out there, I’d say the Partisan and the Atrius Super Selektor or the ARC Fire are among the best out there.
It sounds like you’ve done quite a bit of exploring with FRTs. The Rare Breed has definitely made a name for itself, but it’s good to hear you’re considering alternatives like the Partisan Trigger.
The Partisan is known for its reliability and ease of installation, which can be a big plus if you’re looking to avoid a full trigger system swap. The Kabuto FRTs you’ve been working on must be interesting too!
With several options available, it’s really about what you prioritize in terms of speed, ease of use, and compatibility with your setup. Have you had a chance to test the Kabuto or the Atrius Super Selektor yet?
I don’t completely disagree with you about Rare Breed and the lawsuit settlement. The government had no business filing the lawsuit in the first place. However, as a company with a patent, they are within their rights to defend their products from patent infringements. It seems more sketchy in this case because of the government mandated patent defense in the settlement.
They problem stems from how some of the patents they hold were expired patents that they made a single change to and re-filed it to get it to be a new standing patent or the fact that they bought a patent that was fraudulently filed and then started suing the creator saying that he’s infringing on that patent and their other patents which due to the agreement with the ATF they were really only required to enforce the 223 patent, not the 247 or any other patent. Their blatant litigation against everyone just trying to scrape by is a clear indication that with their agreement they want to hold a state sanctioned monopoly on the FRT market at $499 a unit which according to them $350 goes to ABC IP, which is really sketchy in itself, no reasonable person or company would agree to giving away 75% of profit on a unit to the license holder in an agreement, usually the agreements are 15% of what each unit sells for not 75% of what each unit sells for. There’s a lot going on with these lawsuits and they only end up making Lawrence DeMonico (RareBreed Owner.) And RareBreed themselves look scummier and worse than they did before.
It sounds like you’re diving deep into the legal and financial aspects of Rare Breed’s operations. The concerns you raise about their patent strategies and pricing structure certainly paint a picture of a company trying to solidify its position in a competitive market.
The high percentage of profit shared with the license holder does seem unusual and could lead to skepticism about their business practices. It’s definitely a complex situation, especially with the ongoing lawsuits and the implications for smaller manufacturers trying to enter the FRT market.
Have you had a chance to try out any of the other FRT options, like the Partisan or the Kabuto? It might be interesting to compare their performance and pricing in light of these legal issues.
