9mm vs. 45 ACP: The Greatest Pistol Caliber Debate

Many shooters argue that the debate over 9mm vs. 45 ACP comes down to magazine capacity versus stopping power. However, this is a very apples-to-oranges approach when comparing these two personal defense rounds.

We’ll take an objective look and compare the ballistics, advantages, and disadvantages of two of the most popular self-defense cartridges in the world.

Load up your favorite Glock 17 magazines with your 9mm ammo of choice – or build a tiny, protective dam using the beavertail grip safety on your 1911 – because you are about to read the most objective 9mm vs 45 ACP caliber debate on the Internet.

Pros and Cons of 9mm

Pros Cons
Higher magazine capacity Less stopping power
Less recoil
Wide ammo selection
Ammo tends to be less expensive
Wide firearm selection

Pros and Cons of 45 ACP

Pros Cons
More stopping power More recoil
Wide ammo selection Lower magazine capacity
Wide firearm selection
Time-tested and provenly effective

The Differences Between 9mm and 45 ACP

Is 45 ACP Stronger Than 9mm?

The 45 ACP is undoubtedly the superior cartridge when it comes to kinetic energy transfer. But how is “stopping power” defined? It cannot be quantified so easily, especially since so much of it is determined by shot placement, which is immeasurable. With that in mind, the FBI test protocol is widely accepted as the best assessment of a cartridge’s efficacy for self-defense, which is certainly something akin to stopping power.

For modern 9mm JHP ammo, penetration is around 13-15 inches on average. In contrast, 45 ACP hollow point ammo will typically penetrate to a depth of 12-14 inches. For the most part, both will penetrate the same distance.

One major difference between the 9mm’s .355" diameter bullet and 45 ACP’s .452" JHP is this: their capacity for terminal expansion. In general, a 9mm bullet will expand up to 0.6", effectively doubling in diameter. The 45 ACP bullet also reliably doubles in diameter, although that means it widens until it is nearly 1" around.

In short, the 45 ACP is more likely to inflict a larger permanent wound channel inside the bad guy. That means additional blood hemorrhaging, higher probability of lacerating a vital organ, and an altogether more unpleasant time for the threat.

Since it gouges out a larger permanent wound cavity, transfers more energy to the target, and is (relatively) less inclined to over-penetrate, it’s fair to say that the 45 ACP has more stopping power than a 9mm. Recent advancements in hollow-point technology have significantly improved the 9mm’s performance, although the .45 ACP’s bullet remains the larger and more damaging one.

But this is only part of the story! Let’s continue on to magazine capacity.

Continue reading 9mm vs. 45 ACP: The Greatest Pistol Caliber Debate on Ammo.com

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I dont want shot with either of them

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Hard to argue though a 230gr impact would be twice as serious as a 115gr at any measurable FPS in the 100’s :grimacing:

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Who said the 45 ACP has more recoil than a 9mm?

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The perpetual argument - gel results vs the street.

The 9mm jocks will tell you 9mm performs just as well as a .45 ACP on the street. This piece of “news” comes from compilations of 1st round stops, where the two compare approximately the same. Overall stops compare similarly, but little things do matter. Most of the tables I’ve seen compiled show that, on average, the .45 takes a round or two less to stop a gunfight. That round or two can be significant, especially if you’re faced with multiple adversaries.

Mag capacity. The usual comeback to the 9 guys is that you need all those extra rounds to stop a perp. There is a lot of street dope that says that’s true. 9’s go fast but don’t put out much energy. Look at the Ammo.com table in the additional comments article. The .45 ACP carries about as much energy at 75 yds as any of the noted 9mm rounds AT THE MUZZLE. Energy is important, and the only way that 9mm stays in the game, as energy is related to velocity squared. The more notable factor in “stopping power” is momentum and that’s simple mass X velocity. 9’s have about 1/2 the mass but not twice the velocity. So on the momentum scape, .45 ACP wins.

About this time the 9 guys always fall back on “shot placement”. Shot placement is crucial, or so goes the line. Well, yes and no. Shot placement IS important, but not as in bullseye shooting. Shoot a guy through the heart and he’s dead; shoot him 5x’s the heart and he’s no more dead than with one shot. Yes, BUT - he doesn’t usually KNOW that - at least for 5-10 seconds. He fights on. Until he finally drops dead - or merely unconscious.

?So what IS “shot placement”. It’s the ability to create significant wound channels that will bleed - and take the opponent out of the fight through volume loss. So - the ONLY real one-shot-stopper is a cranial disruption shot. That means hitting him in the head somewhere that the bullet will penetrate the skull AND disrupt the brain function. Kill the “computer” and he’s no threat - right now. Otherwise, create as many LARGE BLEEDING CHANNELS as quickly as you can. So, hit him in the heart, each lung, the liver, the spleen (if you’re good enough to do that), a femoral bone or symphysis pubis or pubic bone (so he can’t stand up). Hits on the CNS are good to stop the fight also, but harder to estimate, as the back is - in the back (duh!), where you can’t see it as well. This is not the kind of shooting you usually practice. “Center of mass” is the usual excuse for those who can’t shoot well, or don’t know where to shoot - or are psychologically overwhelmed by a gunfight. But seeing as most of you here are “good ole mountain boys”, shooting someone shouldn’t be so hard. Still, no one really knows until he has to do that.

Back to the argument at hand. Since this is allegedly a pistol forum, or at least with some deference to handguns (Belt-Fed is the exception — he has enough AR’s to equip a company right from the gitgo), one should take note of the often disregarded fact that .357 Mag in the 125 gr load is the King of take down or take out. The ONLY handgun that comes close to that, without having to carry a cannon (.44 Mag or bigger) is the. .357 Sig round. Talk to street cops in busy cities; they’ll all tell you the same. Those who have been allowed to carry this monster are amazed at how well it works.

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You had me as a devotee right until about…

here…

Not that I don’t love either of the .357’s but just that you neglected

:enraged_face:

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10mm tends to be a bit like the .44 Mag & 500 S&W - a bit hard to shoot well and quickly - and probably has over penetration issues. Lotta gun there. My friend (the guy who blew up his Dessert Eagle and AR in Grendel) carries a Nighthawk-made one as his CCW weapon. I always worry we might get into a gunfight and my hearing would then be well and solidly trashed, probably for good.

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Yeah! I have a Ruger Blackhawk that was rebarrelled in .44 Special. It’s a Flattop with ears. Was 6” barrel (or whatever the long barrel was) and now has a gunfighter-length barrel, which is. my favourite length for single actions.

I think the .44 Spl is SO MUCH BETTER than the Magnum.

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So did it start as a 357?

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Yes. I think ALL the Blackhawks were originally .357 Mag. Certainly not .44 Mag, although there may have been some in .45 Colt.

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They were all 357 for a year anyway. 357 came out in 55, 44 mag came out in 56. Have to get out a book or do some google foo for .41 .30, .45 convertible, .357 convertible, 44 special, 454? .480?

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Hmmm. I kind of think you’re confusing the Blackhawk with the Super Blackhawk. The former was not, to my knowledge, ever made as a .44 Mag; it was considered too thin for that cartridge. I suspect the .41 Mag was the same. OTOH, .45 Colt is not a nasty round, so it most likely WAS made in that calibre.

One reason Horvath et. al. did so well was that the Blackhawk could handle .44 Spl yet retained the same “sleekness” of the original Colt SAA. The Super Blackhawk is a lot beefier. I know the Vaquero came out in .44 Mag (because I owned one - for about 2 months), but it was beefier than a Blackhawk. .30 Carbine, OTOH, became a “standard” option on .357 Mag Blackhawks later in life (like after they went with the loading gate cylinder lock/unlock instead of the older, more SAA-like Loading gate notch on the hammer). Those also included the dumb transfer bar safety, which I always hated.

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'58 or '59 44 mag blackhawk

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Early 60s SBH 44mag

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9mm … And while we are at it Hi Power>1911

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My 45 colt hand loads run a 300 gr jfp at 1450 fps. My blackhawks like that load.
Thats at least as hot as most 44 mag loads.

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As far as I can tell, the frames and cylinders are identical and interchangeable. Most of the SBH 44’s had the longer grip frame and square trigger guard but I have seen SBHs with the smaller grip frame.
The SBH 44 mags that had the unfluted cylinder (for a little extra mass) and the larger grip frame with the square trigger guard were / are a lot more comfortable to shoot.
The 45 Colt caliber BH/SBH is just as strong as the 44 mag, and can handle magnum pressure levels, just like all BH/SBH revolvers. My load in my old 45 3 screw blackhawk is a full case of H110 right to the base of the bullet. Don’t have a 41 but it is the same revolver.
There are 2 Vaqueros, the original that could handle magnum pressures and the New Vaquero which is built on a lighter frame.

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Yee Haw, and a ball of flame…


About 10 grains less then the 454…

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7-1/2" Model 83 F/A In the “Remarks” field it should say “Feels like a grenade going off in your hand”


Holy Moly. I have some of these, would shoot them when I was younger.

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