the USPSA 38 supers load hot to make major power factor and the big comp on the front works better with more gas.
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38s isn’t major on its own?
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I think the most thoroughly proven anti-personnel load ever was the Remington 125 grain JHP .357 Mag load. Those used to be rated at 1600+ fps. They were barrel burners, though.
The Speer .45 ACP “Flying Ashtray” 200 grain wide JHP at 1000 fps wasn’t far behind. I consider a 180 grain JHP loaded to 1100-1200 fps in .44 Mag or Special to offer similar performance. Watch out if you’re buying factory ammo though. Some 180 grain .44 Mags are loaded near that level, but others are loaded to above 1600 fps. Those are fun to shoot but a bit much for defense IMO.
I have a Taurus Tracker fixed sight snubby in .44 Mag that weighs about 30 ounces (about the same as a skinny barrel Model 10) and carries well in a pocket holster. My two favorite loads for it are a 180 JHP at 1100 or so, and a 240 grain lead SWC at 900-1000. I dropped a 200+ lb hog DRT with the latter load in that revolver.
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Everyone i know that runs 38 super loads them hot. My 9X21 was loaded hot too to make major power factor.
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My memory is poor - I;m old. But I seem to remember .357 Mag 125gr running about 1400-1450. At least Gold Dot and Speer, and that’s what cops would carry, so that’s what would have set the bar. .357 Sig 125 gr does just about the same (maybe 50 FPS slower), and one can get that kind of variation just from weather.
And no, @Robert , .38 Super did not make major in standard loads. The hot shot round commercially available was a 125 or 130 gr bullet at about 1200 FPS. That was it; but you needed about a 130 going about 1450 to reliable make major. So that was why all those guns were called “race guns” - they were thought to be as expensive and esoteric as a race car. There have been changes in the IPSC rules, so maybe now they do, but everyone is shooting 9’s ‘cuz they’re easier to shoot and not as much wear and tear on the weapon. BUT back in the “bad ole days” you were not ALLOWED to make major in 9. That was why the 9mm JLE round (basically a 9X21 I believe) was “invented” by Brian Enos among others, who also developed Slide Glide, grease sspecifically for competition guns (initially). Then Rob Leastham went to 9X23, though that never really caught on. I am told the chambers are identičan to .38 Super, or at least you can reliable shoot 9X23 in a Suoer barrel. But I’ve never done that.
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Your memory’s about right. The 125gr .357 loads from Gold Dot and Speer were the benchmark for decades — that’s what set the LE standard, and the numbers back it up.
The .357 Sig basically cloned that performance in a semi-auto package, which is why it had a moment. The 9x23 thing is interesting.
You’re correct that the chambers are dimensionally close enough to .38 Super that it’ll run in a Super barrel, but headspacing and pressure profiles are different enough that I’d want a gun specifically set up for it before trusting my face to it.
Never done it myself, but the guys who ran 9x23 in IPSC back then said it was the real deal for making major without the Super’s rim issues.
Kilroy was here
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NEVER had a “rim issue” with either of my race guns. They ran like clockwork. Guess who built them does make a difference. Mine were built by Marc Krebs, who did a masterful job on them. First one was single-stack and the second with a double-stack frame. Maybe one of these days I’ll put up some pics of them.
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Marc Krebs builds are a whole different animal. His .38 Supers are the ones people measure other race guns against — if yours ran like clockwork, that’s the builder, not the cartridge.
Krebs’ double-stack work is worth studying.
Kilroy was here
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When I first bought the single stuck, he “instructed me” he wanted to see the gun after about 4-6 matches. I shot the matches, stripped the gun to bare frame and cleaned it, reassembled and lubed, and brought it to him. He then promptly dis asembler the whole gun, saw it was actually clean, asked me how I knew enough to get the gun clean or hadn’t I shot it. I smiled and told him, “Basic School at Quantico”. We got along famously after that. Unfortunately he has recently died. Big loss to gunsmiths around the nation. He was in the “100 Guild” and the gun he submitted was the single stuck I bought from him. I let him take pics to send in.
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That 125 gr. load was used here in a Police shooting several yrs. ago, unknown load or brand but 3 rds in chest area plus 1 .38 special in chest, bad guy returned fire and was shot 3 more times in chest area with .357 before expiring.
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Two World Wars and God’s caliber and all that!
Seriously though, 9mm is cheaper, and because of that I sometimes wish I would’ve gotten at least one of my 1911’s in 9mm.
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I have 1 1911 in 9mm. Several in 45acp.
I have several Glocks in 9mm. 1 Glock In 45acp
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I have 7 1911’s in .45, 2 in .38 Super, 2 in 9mm, 2 in .22 LR, 1 in .17 HM2, and 1 in .38 Spl midrange wadcutter.
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This was before there was any such thing as Gold Dot ammo. The original 125 grain JHP .357 Mag load was from Remington and was introduced 20+ years before Gold Dot was a thing. In the '70s and '80s, police agencies that allowed Magnum JHP ammo usually chose this load or the similar offering from Federal.
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